Eat Street Wrecking Subway
I don’t quite know whether to file this one under, “Things that may never happen” or “Interesting notes from the life of a city,” or “Holy cow, everyone look!” But it’s one of those three. To wit: Did you know that there’s a plan afoot to run light rail under Nicollet Avenue, roughly from the Midtown Greenway bike-path to Franklin Avenue? Yes, there are plans for a subway, a subway, a subway!, for, as far as I can tell, 9 blocks, in Minneapolis. This is LRT Alignment 3C, viewable online.
What, you say, that’s the craziest thing you’ve ever heard? The Whittier Alliance, the organization that serves the Whittier Neighborhood (west of I-35, east of Lyndale, from downtown to Lake Street) is way ahead of you. They came out against this plan last May, noting that, among other things, that the plan would kill parking on Nicollet, would cost a bazillion dollars, would likely render Nicollet un-driveable for years, possibly forever, and would make the K-Mart permanent. (Click on the ‘Light Rail Task Force’ links for more.)
Oh, and the Whittier Alliance is worried that the subway would supersede a much more useful streetcar. To which I say: A streetcar??? Is that in the works? Because that would be terrific—from, say, the Central Library to the Cub Foods near Highway 62, straight down Nicollet. Sounds great. I feel like I’m living in an alternate city. I never heard of any of this. It all came to my attention because I got an e-mail about a meeting, this Monday, March 9 at 6 p.m., at the Whittier International School. There, the Southwest Transitway will be discussing an alternate light-rail route, down either First Avenue or Blaisdell Avenue.
I called up the Whittier Alliance to see what the heck any of this means and they told me to come to the meeting; the Southwest Transitway people will be able to answer any and all questions.
I guess my questions are, in order: There’s a subway planned under Nicollet? Really? Seriously? Are you kidding? Really?
And for my follow up: How many months would it take of Nicollet being dug up before we stopped calling it Eat Street and started calling it Starve Street?
After watching a mere re-paving project annihilate LynLake, the mind boggles. As of this writing, the Lyndale and Lake repaving project, killed, by my count, JP’s American Bistro, Machu Pichu, La Bodega,Vera’s Coffee Shop, and that wine-bar near It’s Greek to Me.
I’d say anyone interested in food in this city has a lot to lose: A subway under Eat Street? Really?
Posted on Thursday, March 5, 2009 in Permalink
Comments may be edited for length, clarity, or appropriateness.
Reader Comments:
At first I thought this was going to be about Nicollet Ave's independently-owned eateries actually driving that pukey national sandwich chain out of business, and did a little happy dance before realizing how unlikely that would be.
Dara, I see your point about construction being bad for business, but I think we need to look at the construction of a transit line differently than Lyndale's repaving project. After the Lyndale construction ended, what were we left with? A smoother, sexier Lyndale, but about just as much customer traffic as before the construction. What would we be left with after the construction of streetcar or subway lines? Ostensibly, more bodies being transported through the area - more potential customers to patronize those local eateries (who would then put Subway out of business, right? Yeah, right.)
It would be sad if any eat street restaurants died the construction death, and there is that possibility, especially if the economy is still in the tank when the project begins. But we can hope the restaurants that do survive the construction would be paid off generously for their trouble at the end when pedestrian traffic increases and more of their tables are filled.
They will not be able to "be paid generously for their trouble at the end" because they are as you say, "independently-owned eateries" without a large cash surplus to help them ride through many months with no customer base. K-Mart can leave and take it's disposable junk with it, but we should not treat our local restaurant owners as if they too were disposable. Yes, we need mass transit, but we also need to economically protect the "independently owned."
Vegetarianperspective, by the logic you are suggesting, all of the independently-owned eateries located in the swath of construction on Lyndale should have closed their doors because they simply can't ride through months of decreased customer traffic. Restaurants have varying levels of ability to financially weather periods of decreased customer traffic. Some restaurants will fare better than others, for a multitude of reasons. It is unfortunate that some of them had to close down, but not all of them did.
I agree, it's the good places that don't have that financial ability to survive that are of the greatest concern. Aside from making a point to patronize them even when construction makes it inconvenient, I don't know how we can ensure that we have our pho and subway too.
Well, I think you all are missing the idea that the subway will destroy that which it was meant to protect -- there's no way a little pho place is going to be able to withstand 3 or more years of vanished foot traffic followed by $3k or $6k or whatever monthly charges to pay for the mass transit. The reason people like Eat Street is because they can go there and spend $3 or $9 for a meal, this stems from there being low rents and low overhead, end those and you just end the whole thing.
I'm all for mass transit, and I think a streetcar would work for eat-street, but frankly a subway just seems insane, not least because if there's one entrance on 29th street and another on Franklin absolutely no-one is going to get out and walk 4 or 5 long blocks to get to the restaurants in the middle.
I can't go to the meeting tonight, but if anyone does, let me know what happens!
Remember, we're talking about a 9 block subway. That's all. Could you just gold-plate a limousine and run it back and forth from 29th street to Franklin and get the same
I have to disagree Dara,
If you look at the alignments, you'll see that the two options are to either have the light rail running on the far west side of Lake Calhoun, far west side Lake of the Iles and far west side Downtown or coming through the heart of our urban center via Uptown, LynLake/Whittier, and Nicollet Mall.
Which do you think would be more successful? We're talking a billion dollar transit investment here that will help remake the city for the next 50 years. I'm sorry, but if we're keeping things in perspective here (that being the prospect of living in a thriving, transit friendly city) then I'd gladly sacrifice the little noodle shop on the corner.
Regarding the 3 and 8 dollar meals: I love it too, but Eat Street is already changing. There are condos on 26th (above Jasmine 26 and Bad Waitress) and condos on 2 corners of Nicollet/Franklin (!). Maybe the recession has killed that inertia, but if its a desirable place to be, rents will continue to go up with or without light rail.
Also, I'm not sure they would even have to tear up Eat Street to do this. They would tunnel under it. Franklin would be FUBAR, but that is hardly the heart of Eat Street, and we all turn off on to Blaisdell or 28th anyways because of the stupid K Mart. I could see how a street car project would be MORE disruptive than the light rail since they would have to tear up the entire stretch of Eat Street.
Finally, its unclear (even though I favor it) that the tunnel would be cost effective. It might not happen anyways.
I just get exasperated with the "I'm not opposed to transit but just not in places that I live in" line of thinking. Why aren't you feeling the same sympathy for the little noodle shop on University Ave, where the other light rail line is going? That construction is due to start in about eighteen months, and that alignment is set. How is this not standard NIMBYism?
Love your columns. I just think you're off base here.
All right, this is what's great about a blog, a lively exchange of ideas.
For one thing, you're totally right, the reason I never objected to the light-rail on University is, frankly, it never occurred to me. But now that you bring it up: Holy cow! What's going to happen to all the noodle shops on University? It's going to be Noodlemaggedon. Everyone -- go to your noodle shops now!
And absolutely, I think transit down Nicollet, Blaisdell, or 1st Avenue would be great, definitely preferable to transit down the west side of Lake Calhoun, that seems just goofy. However, you haven't convinced me that a 9 block tunnel is what's best for the city.
So, please, convince me.
How would Minneapolis be a better city with a 9 block tunnel that starts at the car wash and ends at Franklin?
Part of my thinking about a streetcar being preferable to underground transit is simply that people could get on and off it, and patronize street-level businesses. Streetcars in San Francisco, pokey though they be, or at least pokey compared to the 1, 2, or 3 line connecting Battery Park with the Upper West Side in NYC are a great bit of social glue.
Noodlemageddon indeed.
I love the streetcar idea as well, but right now the street cars are just a dream in a Mayor's eye. There is no funding, or timeline, or concrete plan for a streetcar system. He did commission a streetcar feasibility study a year or two ago, but that is about all we have. There are no plans to move forward.
Light rail, on the other hand, will be a reality. This line won't likely even be built until 2018 or 2020, but it still has money, planning and Hennepin county behind it. Even if streetcars were to be a reality, I would still support this light rail alignment since it is our only opportunity to get light rail running through the heart of our city.
I completely understand your urban glue argument. But (keeping with the San Fran theme) this is our BART system. If it doesn't come into the dense urban Minneapolis neighborhoods now, it never will. There are no more lines planned for SW MPLS. This is it. With streetcars, if they did happen, there would be other opportunities in other neighborhoods.
As for the tunnel aspect of it, I think it's just a logistical problem. The line would run in the greenway trench from Uptown. (Plans are to keep the greenway bike lanes too, I'm pretty sure.) From that trench, it needs to get back up to street level, which it will do when it comes out of the tunnel at Franklin. Its not perfect, but, its also still in the planning phase. Where the stations are and how they fit in to the neighborhood is still TBD. That's where community input can help.
But, now is the time to get it right. If its done wrong, it could screw up Nicollet. If its done right, it could be a huge amenity to that part of town, and for Minneapolis in general. I just hope the planners and the neighborhoods aren't too stubborn to talk to each other to come up with a solution that works for everyone. I would hate to see this line routed to the far side of the lakes simply because of community opposition.
You have convinced me! Almost. I didn't realize the tunnel was necessary to gradually bring the LRT to ground level. Now it seems distinctly less goofy.
And I totally agree: Light rail through the heart of the city is the way to ensure a vibrant urban core.
However, I'm going to go with 1st Avenue S. as the more reasonable street to run it under. Why? Partly because the corner of 1st and Franklin is in more need of redevelopment than Nicollet, partly because I'm from New York and logic like: Madison is the big shopping street, so you run the subway under Lexington makes sense to me. Having stops a scant block east (I've walked that block plenty of times, it's particularly scant) would still make Eat Street a walkable destination, or the walkable destination, while sparing it the drama of redevelopment, preserving its walkability, and so on.
So, thanks! Thanks for the persuasive argument.
Now, where's my shovel?
Building the southwest light rail line via Nicollet now short-circuits better, more thought-out planning for a more comprehensive network. Take a look at this map from the Minneapolis streetcar feasibility study and decide whether or not you'd want a commuter rail line to mutate into a tunneled streetcar line at the expense of future development:
http://www.tcstreetsforpeople.org/sites/tcstreetsforpeople.org/files/StreetcarNetworkMap.pdf
Okay, you have officially overwhelmed my little pea brain.
Is the issue now or never? Because then I say: Now!
Or is the issue perfect or imperfect? Because then I say: Perfect!